April 20, 2010...10:12 am

On the recruiting trail: Separating myth from reality

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From one member of Michigan’s basketball community to another, let me just share a point of emphasis that often gets pushed aside during the recruiting process: Being tied to reality.

Players of all ages, I’ve learned, still don’t know the difference between being recruited and getting a letter in the mail. Let me just make it simple for you: Getting a letter from Publisher’s Clearinghouse doesn’t make you a millionaire any more than a letter from a college — any college — makes you a recruit.  A college letter is worth 44 cents. That’s it.

I’ve often wondered why so many players don’t tell the truth with respect to recruiting. I’m starting understand, however: Many don’t know what it means.

Here’s reality: In my hometown, Flint, there are a grand total of ZERO division-one caliber seniors. Z-E-R-O. And so, anyone in Flint who tells you he’s being recruited at any level of division one basketball is either delusional or doesn’t understand what it means to be recruited. I say this not to clown anyone, or to diminish their ability. Let’s face it, playing basketball at that level is extremely difficult. I say this because I’d hate for young players to get the wrong idea about how one must excel in high school to be even considered a division one recruit.

The two best seniors in the Flint area are going to the GLIAC, division two. The third is going the JUCO route. So, if the 10th or 20th best player in the city tells you he’s going to play division one, just take it for what it is: A myth. And this is not just a Flint problem. It’s everywhere.

Don’t be a part of the problem. Get reality-based and get better. Be grateful for any opportunity you have to play ball.


  • Marcellus Miller

    Certainly I feel for the hundreds or thousands of young men that get letters from many schools that just add names to a mailing list if they truly believe that letter in and of itself means much. Until they come handwritten from the coach followed by subsequent calls, they are just letters to random names on a list.

    I will also say that unlike the days of old, many kids are recruited for what they do outside of their high school teams. That is more common now than ever. So, a kid’s season may not be indicative all times of where he ends up. The word is that Cameron Lefear signed with Cinncinati State Community College, a top JUCO program, after what can be described as only a mediocre season at Flint Northern, so clearly there had to be something outside of that to get him there.

    That said, there needs to be training for parents and kids of the recruiting process on this area. A former division one college coach would be great for that role and would fill a real void. Someone should look to do that…at least that’s what I think.

  • Marcellus-

    There actually is a recruiting specialist that has spoke at Flint Schools before. He charges a bijillion dollars for his services and recruiting techniques.

    As for educating players and parents alike, that is the job of each district to implement. Coaches should facilitate information. Counselors should know their clientele. Athletic directors should be overseeing their athletes. Teachers should be informed. Players should be proactive. And administrators should make sure it is all taking place.

    The reality is, it ain’t. None of that is happening. So, students end up short-handed when it comes to understanding the process.

  • Don’t blame this on the high school fellas. The recruiting process SHOULD BE part of the high school coach responsibilities to educate and assist his high school players Frosh to Senior. By that I mean some information and discussions about the recruiting process itself from the Freshman year on, what to expect and how to get from A to B, and then also some real tangible in the trenches assistance in helping the student/athlete in getting scouted and a decent look from the appropriate college program. Most HS coaching just boots on this! They could care less! It’s the biggest reason so many quality player fall between the cracks. Surprising how many HS coach’s think sending a kid to a 5 star or mini camp showcase is a waste of time and money, (by the way a cost they could help facilitate funding raising for), or are negative about their players getting on a quality summer travel team that might get them out in front of college scouts. How many HS coaches have open gyms even? In my opinion high school coaches are over paid and disinterested and downright lazy most of the time!

    • It Ain't Right

      I agree with most of your post PJR… The city coaches are worst the city has seen in sometime. Yes the talent is down, but so is the coaching…..but one I disagree on is that the non-lazy coaches are vastly underpaid.

  • How many of you all know how much coaches get paid? I didn’t think they got paid alot. Do any of you have any quotes?

    • Some public school coaching at the varsity high school level gets as much as $8,000 per year. Other’s might only get $2-3,000 per year. My guess would be an average of $5-6,000 per year typically at public schools.

  • Marcellus Miller

    Clearly there has been no study done on the salary of high school coaches, especially in poverty-stricken school districts that are still looking to contract.

    Kelly, now that you mention it, I did hear of such a specialist speaking at one point. The fact of the matter is with less funding and fewer staff members, the AD’s, counselors, teachers, etc. have a hard time keeping up with day-to-day activities , let alone be properly educated in recruiting. It’s a direct correlation that is difficult to accept, but a reality for many districts in this area.

    I am still waiting for all those who believe they have the magic potion for coaching a largely disinterested demographic to step up and give their time to a program and see the results. Heck, start a summer program that doesn’t have to be affiliated with a school but is funded largely out of your pockets. Do something other than just talk about it. Many kids need more coaches and mentors out there…

  • Good article. The worst part about it is, I think, that when a kid gets a letter from a D-1 program when they are a sophomore or junior they automatically think they are going D-1. They tell everyone that lie and do not continue to work hard. then they either end up not playing or playing at a lower level than they are capable. The best advice is, keep what schools have sent you letters to yourself and work on your game non-stop, and hopefully those schools will continue with you in the recruiting process

  • Someone tell Roy Jackson from Hamady that he will not be playing D1 basketball next year. For some reason he feels the need to tell everyone he is going to be playing d1. He also says he is getting recruited by North Carolina, UCLA, and LSU. FOOLISH!

  • Great article that I believe every high school athlete should read, not only basketball players. It happens in many other sports as well.

    I think we all can agree that hype is one of the main things that is involved in high school athletics. People get letters from colleges and universities thinking that they’ll be able to go there or that particular institution personally wants them. Being a former high school athlete myself, I know the thought that goes through an athlete’s head when they get a letter or pamphlet asking them to attend a camp, and most importantly pay for it.

    High school athletes should be educated on this subject, as well as everyone else involved with the recruiting process.

  • As a side note: can tell me where those players are going from the city? Who are they and where are they going?

  • Yea Roy Jackson told everyone he’s playing D1 what about Cosey,Graham,Mitchell, etc you mean to tell me hes better

  • Great article. Kids are kids and when kids are getting dozens and dozens of letters weekly from D1 schools all through high school, guess what? They naturally assume they are going to go D1. Completely natural / innocent. The situation is compounded when the kid’s family / high school coach is going through this “process” for the first time. The parents and coach do not understand the process and as a result cannot really help “ground” the kid. The whole process is brutal and the coaches really do not care about the kids. They just care about winning – so they can keep their job and / or get promoted. Kids are just pawns in their Chess games. They hedge every deal they are considering with at least 5 other kids – and the 6 kids involved feel as if they are the only player even being considered.

  • There were only four kids at the clearing house meeting yesterday

  • I Think If Demarco Sanders would have gotten A good Opportunity to play ball at powers from Sophmore year until senior year He would be D1

  • U Can Add Ta’Ron Boose To The D-2 List He Has Committed To Wayne St. University.

  • No, Basketball

  • Everyone is missing the big point, you have to have D1 talent to go D1. Every player from this area who passed the test and clearing house with D1 talent, has went D1. When you have the body and skills the colleges will find you. LLP and Crater went D1 because they had that talent, Jackson and Cosey don’t measure up. Its not the coach, Powers had the same coach for Sanders and LLP, the difference is the talent.

    • I couldn’t agree more.

      • Disagree with the idea they will find you, particularly for statewide. Flint may have some scouting/hype advantages, but most of the state doesn’t even get a look, and even the fellas you mention got D1 via summer travel ball at scouted events. Summer travel ball at scouted events is the big key, period. The D1 college coaching DOES NOT come to you to find you, that’s a fact with just a few 7 foot exceptions, you have to go to them. MOST of the state’s players don’t play summer travel ball, and of the ones that do few play on summer travel teams that go to scouted events, and even fewer play at scouted events where D1 coaching is watching. I am convinced a huge, maybe the majority of talented D1 skilled/athletic fellas 6’4″ and under never get a look, and that there are many that fall through the cracks that are far better players than are at many a D1, even many a high major D1. I recall watching LLP get scorched by half a dozen unranked fellas at a mini camp once, and watching him play at Michigan my conclusion then was correct. Kid with connection gets right place at right time, which trumps actual head to head talent with dozens of others, period!

  • D2, D3, NAIA hoop – is really nothing for a kid to raise their nose at either. Kids seem to see themselves and their friends as failures if they go anything less than D1. Many times a kid has never even watched a D2 or D3 game until after they got passed on by the D1′s.

    • You nailed it. So many of these players don’t have a clue how good you have to be to play D-2, NAIA or D-3.

      And, for most of them, it’s not even that they are being passed on by the D-1s. Most of the time the D-1s don’t even know they exist.

    • Watched a lot of the WHAC this past year and the play was great, the whole league very competitive top to bottom. They’re missing the 6’10″ers, but wings and backcourt are every bit as good as many a NCAA D1/D2.

      • Never watched NAIA or D3 until the last few years, Hope, Calvin, even Albion in D3 and the top of the WHAC with Dport, Cornerstone, Aq play quality small college ball. In fact Michigan was represented by Cstone, Dport , and Spring Arbor at the 32 team NAIA natl tourney with 3 wins and St. Francis, IN won the title and they were beaten by both SAU and Cstone in the regular season. After the Hoosier state,(Bethel, IndWes, IUSE, Huntington) Michigan has some of the best small college programs in the country.

  • Where is the young man Chapman from Carman-Ainsworth going? Also from that school, what about Larry?

  • The meeting was at Southwestern just to talk about all the requirements they needed to meet

  • LLp was able to play and do whatever he wanted and Demarco had to sit and play behind people he was better than. And plus having your dad on the coaching staff is not so bad either.

  • So if the two best players in this years senior class presumably Demarco and o’brien not good enough to play d1 basketball and are future gliac players…. Does anyone despite the offers, really see PLP doing anything on the d1 circuit in about a year???

    • Last name will help him – i.e. older sister played and older brother playing D1 will bode well for him. Not knocking the kid just stating fact. If his name were Patrick Jones, he would be heading to D2 land. Being the third in the family, some D1 school will take a chance on him.

    • I have seen him play and he is really small. I don’t know how he will pan out at a Major Division school.

  • Nice retraction on PLP…you bafoons were asying he was #1 in 2011 a year ago when he was torching lesser talent on the AAU circuit.

    Are you now saying that the hype these kids and how they run with it is their false sense of reality? The reality is you websiters hype up a player and the kid believes it. Ie, Brandon Crane, Roy Jackson, and a handful of others. Check yourself before you point the finger at others. Wolf in sheeps clothing!

    • Carl: You need to get a clue. No site has been more critical of Lucas-Perry than this one. Who has hyped up Brandon Crane. You talk a lot, Carl, but you never back it up with anything. Roy Jackson barely made our top 15 in the Flint area. I think he was #15. Again, you don’t really know your subject matter. I have NEVER, nor has anyone on this site, EVER said PLP was the best player in 2011. We’ve never even said he was the best player on his own team.

      • Marcellus Miller

        Wolf iin sheep’s clorthing? Come on now. I will tell you that this site has been accused more of being too critical than overhyping by far! You have got to be kidding.

      • People give plp too much credit. His teammates make him look better than he is.

  • Yeah, and to be honest, that’s kind of a bold statement, Carl. You just completely called the people on this site out, when you have no idea of what you’re even saying, really.

    PLP is a good player. He is. He wasn’t the best on his team.

    Every time I get on here there is someone else saying some radical stuff and pointing fingers at Jared (mostly). You know, he doesn’t HAVE to run this site. He doesn’t have to write and give people the pleasure of reading it. He tells it like it is. opinion is one thing, and respecting it is another. But calling him out on stuff radically is just disrespectful.

  • Although it is true, websites (including this) always do rate Brandon Crane a lot higher then he should be. If you actually watch him play, you can tell why he too is not going D1, because he flat out can’t play. I’m not trying to turn this into a Brandon Crane discussion, or back up anybody, I’m just throwing this in.

    • I don’t recall rating Crane as a D-1 player.

      • I am a guy who is frankly surprised Crane didn’t go D1 as a project 7 foot Center, and think Hillsdale got a steal. Given what I’ve seen going to midmajors as PF/Cs I think Crane was well worth the low risk of not panning out. That’s just mid major, but low D1 should have been all over this fella. There was some apparent interest by Ivy ish D1. But maybe a scholly and a D2 scholarship to a fine academic institution like Hillsdale is what fit perfectly. Lotta you commenters don’t ever figure academics/major/career into hoops decisions, because the top D1ers make their decisions on program to pro basis only, and take underwater basketweaving cirruculum to make sure school doesn’t get in the way of hoops. But for the smart fellas who have a life outside of basketball, as hard as it is to believe for you “D1 or Epic Fail” commenters, academics and what you do in life is the bigger part of the decision. Face it, Hillsdale’s a great education, and if Crane starts dominating the GLIAC as a 7 footer some day, the pros will know about it!

  • Jared ur right you have never had Crane as a D1 player. I think that goes to the point I was trying to make a few days ago. If a player plays AAU, goes to camps and shines, the D1 coaches will hear about it and find them. The player would know he/she was D1 not when they got mail or when an internet sites ranked them high they would know it when a D1 assistant coach came to a game.

  • Wright, wrong, or indifferent there is always some sort of “buzz” regarding D1 when a 7 footer is involved. People expect that a 7 footer will go D1 for sure and some times the kid starts to expect it as well – possibly because so many others expect it. Expectations regarding 7 footers might be why there are so many comments to this article mentioning the name Brandon Crane?

    Speaking of 7 footers – hind sight is 20/20 – so what level do people think Tom Herzog should have went. Sure he has been on a couple of final 4 teams and is getting a very fine education – but from a pure basketball standpoint was high major D1 the right place for him? Should he have went mid-major, low-major or possibly not D1 at all? What do people think?

  • I give you guys several examples of overhyped guys that I have seen in the state of Michigan:

    Brandon Kearney – I have been reading about this guy since he was a freshman and he is not the player that people think he is. In college, he will be nothing more than a solid rotation guy that comes off the bench. And the news papers really hype this guy up. I do not know why he is going to Michigan St. I think playing for Detroit SE his sophmore year really helped start the hype, but in reality I think EMU, WMU, etc. would be a better place for him to play ball.

    Percy Gibson – Now here is another example of hype. He played for Detroit SE and TEAM Detroit with Kearney, Ray McCallum, and Trey Zeigler. I watch him and Kearney play in the Reebok Summer championship online. Both of them combined for 4 points. Gibson has no post moves and even his new high school coach does not think he is tough enough. And another website, Next Generation Hoops, keep pumping this guy up. I don’t know why. Low major Division will be his best choice because he does not even dominate at the high school level.

    Country Day Players not named Ray McCallum or Amir Williams – Lee Bailey is not a Division 1 player for basketball and neither is the Knight guy. They are products of a good program that usually has exceptional talent that can hide an average weaknesses or make them look better. D-2 basketball at best.

    Carlton Brundidge – I saw this kid play several times this year and he can dominate the average high school by having determination, heart, and a sheer effort. He is extremely confident also, but as far as talent. No way. He is a 6’1″ Paul Pierce prototype. I don’t even think he can dunk. Ball handling is average at best and he is a spot up shooter. But his free throws are money. Should he be going to Michigan, jury is still out. Against A.A. Huron, he could not just rely on effort. They had guys who could match that and Brundridge could not adjust.

    Saginaw High players post Draymond Green and Daniel West – After Green and West led Saginaw to back to back state championship everyone was on the Saginaw band wagon, similar to Pontiac in the late 90′s early 2000′s. They did win two state championship in a row, like Pontiac Northern and like Pontiac Northern, every young with a little talent is being hyped as the next big thing. On top of that, I saw Saginaw play last year and that is a problem for their team because all the players are trying to play for scholarship instead of winning the game.

    Juwan Moody – He now plays at Pontiac High and he really is a prime example of too much too fast. As a 13 year old, he was donned as the next Lebron, no joke see this link http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2006/07/25/are_you_kidding/. The Detroit News had him as the top freshman entering high school and listed school such as Standford, Georgetown, and other big colleges as schools that were in the mix recruiting him. At Orchard Lake St. Mary’s, he played JV his freshman year. OUCH! That is a dose of reality. Then he came off the bench as a sophmore on Varsity. Now as a junior, he plays at Pontiac High and may not even be the best player on that team, an average team at best. And by the way, that team doesn’t have any Division 1 players from what I saw. Moody can shoot the basketball, but that’s it. He does not get to the free throw line and he is not an aggressive scorer. He is just a three point shooter and he is only about 6’1″. So in my opinion, he could sneak into a Oakland University because of their style of play, but for the most part, he could go to a HBCU or a Division 2 college for basketball.

    These are just my opinions, but I was wondering does anyone else think the same thing?

    • Excuse the typos.

      • Are you saying both Green and Lewis are overrated? Frankly I’d say no and yes, but only because the hype on them was so huge!

        Lewis is a good player who’s hype was probably too much and set him up against too high of expectations. Lewis in JuCo has been good but his path kinda flat at Mott, maybe even regressive, and accounting for injuries, etc., along with Mott’s having a lot of wing players all looking for time, well this meant Lewis didn’t rise as much as expected against the hype. However even last year when he was healthy many an unranked guard fella from another decent JuCo got the better of Lewis, as in HFCC’s guard just flat out outplaying him to win the championship.

        I’d disagree with you on Green. Green’s turned out better in college than many expected. While Green right now is way overhyped as college player, recall that as high school player Green’s game wasn’t suppose to work on the college level. Flab City was the big concern about Green, and while he’s slimmed down a bit he’s still way too flabby, but the facts have shown crafty trumps flabby. Just think if Green ever pushes away from the table and get rid of the flabby! And if he controls that mouth and plays instead! WOW! He could become one of Michigan State’s great ball players. Can’t see his game transfering to the pros, but then again how crafty is this fella??

      • Never said Green was overrated or Lewis either. Never saw Lewis play or remember him. Need to read closer next time around.

  • On the subject of Brandon Crane. I’ll just do a little comparison of another fella who I hyped up on forums quit a bit as a nice PF/C prospect, that being the Mega’s River Rouge then Detroit Loyola’s 6’8″ Jevon Hardin. Back when Hardin was young soph nobody though squat about him as Rouge was last place in the Mega White, and Hardin could/would get handled by 6’2″ centers. But I always thougt Hardin was a nice project PF/C, and I see Hardin is going to CMU on a scholarship. But compare Hardin to Crane:

    Height: Crane by 4″+
    Hops: Hardin by a little
    Athleticism: Tie
    Getting down the floor: Tie
    Defense: Crane
    Blocks/Intimidation: Crane
    Rebounding: Tie
    Offense: Crane by a lot
    Jumpshot: Crane by a huge whole lot
    FT: Crane
    Handles/Passing: Crane by a lot

    Now this is NOT some hateraide on Hardin, who I think will do fine at CMU. But CMU/Zeigler is right down the road from Midland. Hardin played in a lower CHSL division that was pretty easy, and did not show up on the stat sheets many a night, while Crane played with Midland High in the much harder SVL, and showed up a lot on the stat sheets, even against top prospects like Sagnasty’s McCune. No question if I was Zeigler, I’d of taken Crane over Hardin, and I hyped both fellas equally. But facts are the deciding factor was Hardin played on Coach Zeigler’s son Trey Zeigler’s summer travel squad, where Coach Zeigler got to see Hardin and see the potentials, and Crane did not! That’s just the name of that tune! But to say Crane can’t play is absurd novice level of basketball insight. Crane is what he is, a likely late bloomer PF/C 7 footer. Sometimes the moons line up to take these fellas, ala Hardin, sometimes they don’t, ala Crane.

  • The main ingrediant everyone is missing in this entire conversation is this. It doesn’t freakin matter how good the kid is unless he’s the best in the country…if the Area D1 schools don’t need to recruit that position, that kid isn’t going to go D1 unless he get’s a lot of out of state exposure. The job of the high school coach isnt to market their talent, IT’S TO WIN BASKETBALL GAMES!!!! if the kid is good enough to play college basketball, he’ll get recruited. The fact of the matter is this, unless he’s going to play major d1 ball and have a chance to go to the NBA, the next step in the process is to get realistic and look at lower level institutions, and when it come’s to that level i.e. D2, NAIA, D3, you have to consider the value of the degree the school offers. 1 percent of all h.s. athletes get to go on and play collegiately, any kid who overlooks the naia’s offers waiting for a d1 offer is very misguided, coaches give offers and pull within a week or two if they don’t take it. now you have a kid who misses out on the naia offer and never recieves the d1 offer…and now hes screwed. Oh, and by the way…D1 isn’t all that great, I can tell you a handful of NAIA schools that hand it to D1 schools…happens every year…

    • College Coach gotta disagree with a lot of what you say. You contradict yourself a lot. First off you seem to think the only scholarship worth worrying about is a high major D1, or you better start looking at NAIA/D3. That leaves out about 300 D1 schools and a whole lot of D2 schools. Then you’re either talking about “unless he’s the best in the country” and then switching to ” … if the kid is good enough to play college basketball, he’ll get recruited … “. Now the the idea that the kid has to be the best in the country is just absurd talk per D1 scholarships, and may a kid a whole lot better than the kids that went D1 never got a sniff and fell through the cracks unrecruited. Right place, right time, many a time is key to recruiting. You gotta go to them, because they aren’t coming to you.

      Also, while I agree most high school coaching shares you view that they don’t have to do squat for their players, well that don’t make it right, and that’s frankly the #1 reason so many good players fall through the cracks. Now the quality high school coaching looks out for their players because they know getting a player to the right places at the right multiple times in front of the right coach enough for that coach to get comfortable can mean a scholarship worth $100K. That is why summer travel ball is becoming 99% of the recruiting path, because high school coaching don’t give a crap and more and more summer coaching has not just development but tangible result exposure/placement as their goal and plan. You really don’t have to play high school ball now, as long as your academics are good and you’ve played for a scouted summer team enough times in front of the coaching, given the talent you’re a whole lot closer to golden.

      The idea that ” … if the kid is good enough to play college basketball, he’ll get recruited … ” is simply FALSE! College coaching, particularly D1 college coaching, typically DOES NOT come out to high schools to find players and scout around for new recruits. They don’t have the time for one thing, because they’re in their own team’s season. They really go to only the high schools they previously targeted a young 7th/8th/9th/10th grade fella from during the summer scouted travel season, aka for D1ers JULY, and this to try to get themselves in a better position by a top recruit. Amazingly at summer events you ALWAYS see a bunch of college assistant coaching and recruiting staff all together watching players that they most of them don’t have a dogs chance in hell of landing, multiple times even. I put this down to guys going to scouted events to find their next job, not find a new recruit.

      I do agree with you that too many kids wait around for a mid major or high major D1. I also agree that many NAIA teams can beat up on many D1 teams. But facts are though that many hoopster kids NEED a full scholarship, which typically means NCAA D1 or D2, or NAIA D1, as they just can’t play without a full scholarship. For instance, say you get a typical NAIA D2 or NCAA D3 partial scholarship, like say Madonna or Sienna Heights or Kalamazoo College or Albion College. That’s about $13-17K or so against a $28-32K tuition. The 15-$20K left is almost the same cost as full costs for most state universities per tuition, and frankly it might as well be a million to most fellas. Just can’t get there from here. So defacto financially NAIA D2 or NCAA D3 IS NOT AN OPTION!

      Frankly that’s why I am such a big believer in the JuCo route. JuCo’s that offer scholarship are the only other path besides NCAA D1/D2 for fellas that don’t have two nickels to rub together. Even HFCC, a defacto D3 level JuCo WHICH DOES NOT OFFER SCHOLARSHIPS, but playing in a D2 JuCo league, is a lot cheaper than an NAIA or anything not full scholarship. Plus the JuCo league are very, very good. A real nice combination of D1/D2/NAIA/D3 talent, and MI’s JuCo league has a lot of teams that could beat a lot of D1/D2/NAIA/D3 teams. Plus it lets you work on your game and if the program looks out for you and the moons line up, maybe someone will give you a look and you can get that full scholarship at a D1/D2. If not, and you go NAIA/D3, at least you saved two years of cost, which is significant!

      That’s my take, and I’m sticking to it!

      • I have to chime in here. I was one of those guys who thought he was going to go play ball like thousands of other kids, but if you look at the numbers; you are competing with about 1000 high schools (in MI alone), with about 4 to 5 seniors on each team, and then if you want to discuss the whole country then multiply that number by 50. 250,000 kids competing for those D-I scholarships and D-II (partial scholarships).

        In addition, the college coach is right. My good friend that is coaching at a University down south has told me that the University usually recruits by position and they usually have 10 guys for each position. In addition, a lot of guys that go to that University are coming in a preferred walkon. So it is not that clear and cut as people think.

        But back to the top. Most of these kids need to work in the class room as much as they do on the court and then they would probably be more attractive to college’s in the first place. I mean we are arguing over community college kids that either are going there because of lack of exposure in high school (10-20%) or because they can not obtain qualifing scores(80-90%).

        Another obstacle for the Barry kid could have been academics. Ever thought about that? I am not saying Mott has Rhode Scholars but I think a coach would take a struggling athlete from Mott over one from HFCC.

  • College Coach, thank you for taking the time to post that.

    While I was never good enough to be part of this conversation, you bring up a lot of good points.

    There have been a lot of good posts in this string.

  • new word on the street is that flint northwesterns jaylen magee is switching schools to attend beecher.

  • PJR, hate to say it, but you would fall into one of those very misguiders group. Your right, going juco would get you two free years of college…but what your wrong about is this…most cases, kids transfering into those naia schools lose A LOT of credits due to institutional non-transferrable credits…so now, you have a juco transfer that will come in and play two years of ball, and after that, still have a year and a half of school left which he has to pay FULL tuition himself…now he ends up paying MORE money because he went the juco route….and i think you need to go back and re-read my first post….I included D2 level in with naia and d3. and your also misguided because NAIA D2 schools have 6 full rides….if the kid is good enough…that school will full ride him….and to read that you think no coaches go out and recruit high school games? that really demonstrates your knowledge of the process lol…And if those hoopsters need a full ride from lower level programs (d2,naia,d3…tell those hoopsters to get it done in the classroom and they would be)….and I didnt contradict anything, you really must not be a good reader….read carefully..i said if the area d1 schools do not need that position, he wont be getting recruited unless he got a lot of out of state exposure….if he’s the best in the country …i.e. espnu top 150, then it doesnt matter those schools will offer him even if they dont need to recruit that position…hope your following still….now, if he is good enough to play college basketball…he will get recruited….maybe not to the d1 level….but to other levels…and good h.s. coaches do not market their kids, they win ball games and they answer their telephone when a coach comes calling and they are honest. if the kid is flake and doesnt get it done in the classroom, good h.s. coaches tell the college coaches that…im willing to bet i have a lot more experience in this area under my belt then you.

    • I have to give it to the CollegeCoach. He is 100% right on this one.

    • Disagree totally. In fact if you mind your P’s and Q’s it totally the opposite. Many NAIA schools are lined up now with JuCos. For instance I know a fella playing at Schoocraft that is in a program that lines up exactly with Siena Heights, acting a a feeder. JuCos like HFCC have full transfer of all credits in cirriculums, and it’s as easy as going to the counselors office and looking that the four year school and program you want to get into, and taking the classes that will transfer fully and count toward your major and get you in. There is simply no reason to lose any credits in transferring, as long as you make sure to look up the school/cirriculum you plan on attending and then taking the appropriate transferable classes.

      And you have the qualifiers like “if the kid is good enough” and such. Look, facts are the vast majority of NAIA WHAC schools offer about 13 to 1/2 of the tuition to most players. That’s just the way it is. And frankly the pressure is to spread the scholarship money out over the roster, not give more to one or a few guys to cover their full costs while not covering another roster player’s costs at all.

      The rest you write is just a repeat of your first post. Again, not many if any D1s find their recruits at high schools. Some of the NCAA D2s, alot of the NAIAD2 and alot of the NCAA D3 will come to high schools to see. But even these guys have seasons to attend to and are limited. So across the board the VAST MAJORITY as in 95%+ of the scholarship offers in D1, and a majority of them in D2, come via scouted summer travel ball, period!

      That’s just the way it is. As a matter of fact, your attitudes are what may parents and high school coaching think and unknowinly hurt their player or child with. They don’t understand the way it really is, the system recruits get recruited by, and they get left behind! Hell, if coaching came to high schools to give out scholarships you wouldn’t have all these hype rag forums and rankings and summer shoe company events and such!

    • Naia also have tuition rates $7-10k/yr less than d3/miaa schools and I believe also offer add academic scholarships for 3.5+ gpa as do d3.

      • Eagle that’s true and not true. First “tuition” as cost comparison is not necessarily a quality indicator of the total cost of the school. Off the top of my head, based on last time I checked, admittedly a while ago, still NCAA D3 Kalamazoo was about $35K, NAIA D2 was about $32K. Both offered about $13k – $15K in scholarships, the NAIA D2 athletic and the NCAA D3 academic. But to the kid who might fit academically at NAIA D2 or NCAA D3, the point is the remainder of the costs might as well be a million dollars, because they don’t have two nickels to rub together. Hence, JuCo can be a lot less in costs even with no scholarship! Plus the MCCAA JuCo league is for the most part every bit as good matched up with the NAIA D2 WHAC and NCAA D3 MIAA, meaning top half not bottom half of the leagues. For instance I’d say at the top half of the MCCAA in Mott/HFCC/Oakland/GlenOaks/SC4/etc. would be competitive with the WHAC’s Cornerstone/Davenport/Aquinas/SienaHeights and the MIAA’s Hope/Calvin/Albion/etc.

      • Above comparison was an estimate for full costs between say NCAA/D3 Kalamazoo College at $35K and NAIA/D2 Madonna College at $32K, private to private, just to show that they are kinda similar in costs for the most part.

      • I just know that naia Aquinas , Cornerstone , Bethel run 27-29k reduced by academic scholarship of 10k and a partial athletic scholarship could leave a balance of say 10k. While an albion or hope run $36k less a 16k academic leaving a balance of 20k. But I understand it might as well be $1m for some, but don’t the albions and d3 also have financial aid packages from endowment funds that cover much of this balance based on financial need. Thats what I understand that some of the miaa schools can do for in effect a full-ride.

  • Ty, SF Barry’s an excellent GPA student in an accounting major. The fact that he’s at UoM Dearborn in accounting should answer you concern. What’s Oglesby taking at BG as major?? Come on now! GPA and brains wasn’t the problem, not at all. Again, it’s not just Barry, as HFCC had Mustin, Barry, Wallace, TRudy, Foster, Knott, Panky, etc., etc. all appear to be falling through the JuCo cracks! And it’s not just HFCC. Other JuCo’s who have solid talent seem to also not get enough recruiting looks. Maybe it’s because they are “D2 JuCos”, not “D1 JuCos”, who knows?! But I am a firm believer that in both high school and JuCo ball, a whole lot of very talented players don’t get looked at or recruited, while other that are less talented land D1/D2 scholarships. It’s a kinundrum caused by college coaching limited time to start with vs all the potential players, and this reduced by college coaching wasted time looking at the same thing over and over and not looking at new recruits and/or just not going to new areas or programs to scout!

    • How do you explain Minnerath at Jackson? I mean, is Jackson getting more looks than HFCC? Come on.

      • Uh, if you’re explaining Minnerath vs the HFCC fellas like Barry, it’s say you explain Minnerath at Jackson CC by three things:

        First, Minnereth’s the focal point of his team, plays all game long, and has got great ppg and other stats.

        Second, Minnerath played two years at Jackson CC and the second year benefits from the quality first year per colllege coaching coming to see him. Recall guys like Barry, TRudy, Foster only played one year, academically sophs and athletically frosh.

        Third, Finamore’s a solid JuCo coach who’s doing more than the average JuCo coach, looking to place Minnerath, noting Minnerath is Finamore’s first big out of state recruit, and Finamores got/gets contacts and uses them.

        As I recall the times I saw Minnerath play in 2009 the four year university assistant coaching and teams that where looking at him hanging around to talk were teams more like GLIAC and such. So playing only one year of JuCo ball and then moving on hurt some of the HFCC fellas.

      • Oh, let’s not forget while you where hyping up Mott CC exclusively, I was hyping up ALL of the MCAA JuCo fellas, any and all I could see, including Minnerath. Minnerath was probably the guy who wasn’t HFCC that I hyped the most. Obviously that was HUGE! HA!

      • Also, you have to separate the “looks” HFCC is getting between last year, this year, and next year. For sure Jackson CC last year got more looks than HFCC, due to Minnerath. HFCC’s success last year put HFCC on the map, and this year’s HFCC benefitted as more college coaching and scouts took interest. Similarly, next year due to the #1 ranking and quality wins, HFCC next year should be on a whole lot more college coaching and scouts radar and Must See To Do List! But that said, whole lotta HFCC guys better than guys who are going D1/D2 have and are falling between the cracks! Hopefully that changes for HFCC in the future. But it really doesn’t help MCCAA wide per recruiting if the college coaching and scouts all just run from one year’s popular flavor to the next year’s popular flavor. These college coaching and scouts are getting paid good money, and ALL should be taking in every last JuCo team every year, plus a lot more area high school teams!

  • Tim Tenneriello

    PJR after reading these posts I am not being critical but i think your opinions could carry more weight if we knew how it is that you know the recruiting process so well. You talk alot about what and how colleges recruit and i am just curious how it is that you know the process with which every level of college basketball recruits. You talk as if you are an expert on the process of recruiting…can we have some credentials

  • Barry only played one year. I wonder why the coach didn’t get him to come back. Well if he is an accounting major, that is good enough. He’ll be a pro after he graduates, but a professional businessman that is and not continue to chance a basketball pipe. He is just learning earlier than others.

  • im not sure PJR has credentials….hes just talking like an expert because that’s what some people think they are….i can tell you between going through the process myself of being recruited and playing college basketball and now being a college basketball coach….PJR is far from reality on a lot of these things.

    • Credentials? How about facts! I posted FACTS in my replies, the way it is. What specifically are you saying is wrong with what I’ve posted? You don’t think the vast majority of D1 scholarship players are identified via summer shoe company and scouted ball? You don’t think NAIAD2/NCAAD2 costs even with scholarship are still prohibitive for typical players w/o any money to fund the rest?? What??! Call up some reality from your credentials fella!

  • flinthooper22

    well not to dispute the the legitimacy of your argument of flint having any D1 caliber seniors but D. chapman from CA just signed with a d1 school in Texas prairie view A&M……………… shocking but true.

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