Mott’s Torian Oglesby verbals to Bowling Green

Posted: April 26, 2010 by Jared Field in College, High School

Mott’s 6-7 sophomore forward, Torian Oglesby, has verbally committed to Bowling Green. He will sign this week. Oglesby prepped at Saginaw Buena Vista. He averaged 10 points and eight rebounds per game as a sophomore and will be among the most athletic forwards in the MAC.

Central Michigan, also in the MAC, offered Oglesby as well.

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Comments
  1. PJR says:

    Congrats to Oglesby. Again not hateraide but I do find this interesting, as it seems like I recall 6’7″ leaper SF John Barry of HFCC putting the big hurt on Oglesby last year in the championship game, after having a real nice JuCo season and playoff run, and doing real well at the nationals too. Last year Barry showed he could play about any position from PG to PF and had some real solid games and decent stats. But Barry didn’t get even get a sniff! Ended up walking on to UoM Dearborn and playing the first two games as starter, did real well, but with no scholarship for him decided he needed to work to get money to pay for school, and dropped off the team! Just an oddity how some quality fellas fall though the crack through no fault of their own.

    • Jared Field says:

      Basketball at the higher levels is a meritocracy. Sometimes you’re just not skilled or athletic enough. Oglesby is not skilled, per se, but he’s exceptionally athletic. Sometimes that’s good enough.

      • PJR says:

        That doesn’t answer it. No question Barry is far more skilled. But Barry is also far more athletic than Oglesby. Far better jumper/dunker, quicker/faster, stronger. You wouldn’t see Ogleby out on the perimeter covering PGs, but that was routine for Barry, in fact part of the HFCC scheme to match his length up with guards for steals. Nope it’s just something else!

      • Jared Field says:

        Ha. That’s funny stuff.

  2. PJR says:

    Funny, maybe, true, absolutely!

  3. Ty Williams says:

    Maybe it’s the fact that Oglesby played for Mott CC and Barry played for HFCC? Mott has a track record for putting out quality D-1 ready players and HFCC does not.

    For instance, I have a good that is an administrative (grad) assistant at a small D-1 college in the south. They recruited a player that played for the Boo Williams Summer League AAU team (Hampton, VA). But they only recruited him on word of mouth and the reputation that Boo Williams had for putting quality players in D-1 programs (such as Alonzo Mouring, Allen Iverson, Patrick Patterson, etc.). The kid got to campus and his was three inches shorter than listed and 20 lbs smaller. At the end of the season, he was released from his scholarship due to his lack of talent.

    Basically, sometimes schools recruit based on reputation of the school more than actual talent.

    • Ty Williams says:

      I meant “good friend”.

    • Jared Field says:

      In this case, it’s a 6-7 kid with big-league athletic ability. They’ve seen him play and they’ve had him in for a visit. They, apparently, desperately needed an athletic forward and they don’t come much more athletic.

      The stuff about John Barry is just laughable. Given his description of Barry, the fact that he didn’t “get a sniff” is a tell-tale sign that PJR is getting a sniff of something potent. Guys that fit his description of Barry DO NOT get passed over by everyone. They do not walk on at the NAIA level. It’s patently absurd.

      • PJR says:

        Come on now. All you need to do is go back and compare performances between Barry and Oglesby in last year’s playoff/nationals and this year’s playoffs. There’s simply no comparison. And if you think Oglesby is a better athlete than Barry you’re out of your mind. Barry is an elbow on rim crazy ups dunker capable guy and can most definitely outjump Oglesby, this just fact even though he doesn’t dunk that much, but when he does watch out it’s highlight, so not even close! He’s faster down the court by far, noting Barry played wider receiver for Wyandotte and lead the Mega in touchdowns and yards per catch. Barry just has more ups, more quickness, more strength and more skills. Again, Barry can easily cover a DeAndre Neily inside or a Lewis on the wing, etc., which he did! Now one thing that might have hurt Barry and a couple of the other HFCC fellas is that they only played one year of JuCo, as they where sophs academically and frosh athletically. Another year of JuCo ball might have helped them rise to the top of the pile. But even so that doesn’t explain a lack of interest in Barry, and a few of the HFCC fellas, or other JuCo team fellas, both last year and this year. It’s a system kinudrum. Assistant coaching recruiters are creatures of habit, sometimes bad habits! Would Minnerath have made D1 UoD w/o Jackson CC’s Coach Finamore contacts?? Doubt it. JuCo could use more D1 level placement efforts like Schmidt and Finamore with regard to the other coaching in the league. Look, even Arkwright left D2 SVSU and with a stellar SC4 career still only ended up D2 upon re-entry. Just like a whole lot of high schoolers with as good or better talent are falling through the cracks because they are outside the system, a lot of JuCo fellas are also falling through the cracks because they are outside the system!

    • PJR says:

      Think you’re exactly right about playing at Mott vs HFCC. It’s a big factor that really should be a factor, but is huge! Facts are Mott is part of the D1 recruiting system, and HFCC is not. Last year and this year there’s no question that HFCC had a roster as talented or even more talented than Mott. And in particular a couple few guys on HFCC were/are a whole lot more talented that Mott’s top hyped fellas. It’s a system thing, And How. A reply below goes over it a bit too.

  4. M_Montgomery says:

    Barry, is no where near faster or quicker than Ogleslby, and jumping wise ha thats funny, Barry is no where near the athlete Oglesby is.

    • Jared Field says:

      No use arguing with him. He’s talking about a player who washed out at UM-Dearborn. It’s satire.

      • PJR says:

        Look, don’t want this to turn into hateraid on Oglesby, but facts are last year Barry dominated Oglesby and Mott’s frontcourt/wings 24/7, all three games. In the playoffs Barry was defacto the highest impact player, single handedly beating Glen Oaks with 28, etc., etc., etc.. Barry had a very good nationals as well. Keep in mind this is for an HFCC team where coaching typically splits time and most players only get half a game. ‘ Field that the smallest kind of cheap shot to say Barry “washed out”. You’re just made because all last year I said HFCC would beat Mott and then they did. I was right then and I’m right now, the reason being I just know a hell of a lot more about hoops than you do, and it bugs you a bit.

        Per athleticism it’s a fact barry is more athletic that Oglesby. Barry’s leaping ability exceeds Oglesby, period. Think TV12 or something still has video up of Barry blocking Oglesby’s best shot last year. Barry also has excellent speed and strength and quickness and agility. Oglesby just doesn’t come close here. If you watched him play wide receiver in football, you wouldn’t be trying to say Oglesby if faster.

        Not to correct Field Barry didn’t “wash out” at UoM Dearborn, he in fact he was not planning on playing at all because UoM Dearborn had no scholly to offer and Barry thus had to work to pay for his school, and working and studying in accounting and playing was too much. The coaches and others pestered him and he joined the team the day before the season opener, played most of the first game and started the second game, led a young UoM Dearborn team to an upset of the #30 NAIA team in the country the second game. After that trip he then basically decided that basketball was interfering and impossible with his school and his work. If there had been a scholarship to replace the need to work things would certainly be different per allowing time to play. THAT is exactly the point my original comment was trying to make.

      • Jared Field says:

        Oglesby just got a D-1 ride. Your boy is playing at the Y in Deaborn. Anything further?

        I guess I should just add that the fact that Barry “had a really good nationals” speaks to the scope of his prospect status. There are coaches from EVERY LEVEL OF D-1 and D-II looking for a diamond in the rough at that tournament. Somehow they all missed out on a kid who is more skilled and significantly more athletic than a kid who has several mid-major D-1 offers. And since you know so much more about basketball, you must also know much more than all these coaches at every level who saw him and passed. And he’s so unbelievably good that his coach only played him half the game at HFCC. I can tell you that Jamie Stewart and Marcus Knott played more than half the game this season.

        And here’s what dominating “24/7” looks like through the eyes of a nutjob: In three games versus Mott as a sophomore Barry averaged 7.7 points and 6.3 rebounds. Good numbers, but far from domination. In his “very good” performance in nationals Barry, who didn’t start, scored five points, grabbed one rebound and fouled out in a loss in the opening round.

        Psycho much?

        Just say that you’re in love with Barry because he went to school with your son. Don’t blame Torian Oglesby.

    • Ty Williams says:

      I am not on either side, but it sound like Barry is not all that good from those stats. He should of went to one of these D-III schools in MI.

      • Marcellus Miller says:

        May not be able to get into Mott with those numbers…

      • PJR says:

        Look, the FACTS are Barry didn’t even get 20 minutes a game most games. Per HFCC those stats are kinda meaningless unless you double them, because most guys split time on HFCC. Last year, when Wallace was in Barry was out, and vice versa. That actually hurt Wallace this year per his stats, because when Penman was in, Wallace was out. Just looking up overall stats is ludicrously stupid! Again, FACT, Barry OWNED Oglesby, and what’s his name the hyped forward from Glen Oaks who transferred out. And by the way truth be told Wallace OWNED Nealy. That’s yet another example. Nealy’s going MAC. Where’s Wallace going? Coach Abe is in print as saying he’s the best big man in the JuCo leagues this year. SO?? It’s the system more than the talent, right program, right contacts, right place, right time, PERIOD!

  5. Ty Williams says:

    Alright guys. This is how the system really works. Oglesby is from Saginaw and they are know for producing good talent at the moment and guys going to college from that city like crazy. I have no knowledge of where Barry is from. All I know is that he played at HFCC. Sometimes these coaches look at the whole resume. Oglesby played at BV too and I believe he was a serious factor at that level and then went to Mott and was a factor. With that being said, the coach at Bowling Green may have been talking to a number of people who could vouch for Oglesby, where Barry may have only had the coach at HFCC to speak on his game. You never know, the coach at Saginaw maybe able to even vouch for Oglesby. It’s kind of like a faternity of coaches that respect each other’s opinion and if you are not in that cirle then it will be harder for a coach to respect your opinion. For example, I know who coaches Mott and I know he gets alot of respect in the coaching community. I don’t know much about HFCC’s coach other than he has turned the program around in the recent years.

    It is really a politically thing.

    • PJR says:

      Agree. Again, college assistant coaches are generally lazy creatures of habit. They are like Markowski, go back to the same well, talk to the same guys, and most of the time they aren’t talking recruits rather next job opportunities. Go to some scouted events and watch the guys scouting. It’s a joke for the most part! Why at the Hoosier Shootout are 200 college assistants gathered around the same game each time watching the same 10 guys, noting 195 of the college assistants are watching a player they don’t have a dogs chance in hell of getting, this while great games with great players they could get go unnoticed 20 paces left on another court. Even here on this site, a site that’s a lot less hype than many other sites, hype not reality rule. FIELD, WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK HFCC WON OVER THREE NATIONAL POWERS GLEN OAKS, OAKLAND, AND MOTT LAST YEAR?! Yeah, the answer is Barry is a washout! SHEESH!

      • PJR says:

        And to put it in perspective I’m not saying Barry belongs on Duke or MSU, but with guys like Minerath and Nealy and Oglesby are going mid major it’s absurd to think guys like Barry and Wallace and a few others at HFCC aren’t at least lower D1 or GLIAC capable, if they can’t land at a midmajors. And I’ve seen PLENTY of players on Mid Majors and High Majors a lot worse than many of the players on HFCC. Let’s get it in perspective here!

  6. PJR says:

    Field, some corrections for you.

    I’m not hating on Oglesby, and because I know of Barry I am familiar enough to comment. But Barry is just one guy I know of. Plenty of others.

    There’s not enough scouts at JuCo games. I saw a few hear and there, mostly GLIAC teams like LSSU. Few D1 coaches. The Nationals did have a few scouts, but frankly not that many, and mostly D2, and add in HFCC was not a team checked off as a team to must see the first round, and then lost it’s first two so not than many scouts got to see them. Out of those two games a couple HFCC guys got some interest from some D2 level teams, but not enough exposure and confidence for offering a scholarship.

    Now I Love Marcus Knott. And by the way there’s another example. Knotts got a record of success and winning that’s ridiculously good. I’ll post it below. But once again you’re wrong because Marcus Knott played about half the game last year like everyone else, and Marcus Knott WAS NOT the top PG on HFCC end of the season last year and into the playoffs, as that was TRudy, who they moved over from SG/SF to play PG.

    Marcus Knott Resume:

    Frosh at Truman: Starting PG wing Mega White and gets to District Championship.

    Soph at Truman: Starting PG cochamp Mega Red and gets to Qs

    Junior at Truman: Starting PG Regional Finals

    Senior at Truman: Starting PG Regional Finals

    HFCC: State Champs to Nationals

    HFCC: Lead MCCAA League most of year. HFCC ranked No 1 in Nation at peak

    Knotts a proven leader and winner! He does it with defense and distribution, a classic PG! SO: Where’s Knott going as maybe this year’s top PG in JuCo?

  7. PJR says:

    Per Barry at Nationals: The ONE thing a lot of watchers of HFCC will tell you is that many times the platooning gets in the way of the best team on the floor. For instance last year both Nationals games Barry and Wallace did not play together. And the whole roster played both games. That’s good for players getting a bit of exposure, but not good for winning. HFCC got down by a whole lot because of platooning, and mostly because Barry and Wallace where always playing sole big man roles. They actually did very well single handedly holding down the paint, but for those that understand basketball it’s not gonna be a stat builder but a stat user kinda game! Barry fouled out one game, and that hurt, but the fouls prevented a whole lot more hurt. Think both games HFCC got down by 15-20 and came back to lose by 4-8, too little too late.

    Facts are the too little too late was really rotation and substitution problems. Facts are in spite of the stats you quote both Barry and Wallace played very well when each was out there. They should have played more together, and that would have prevented the fouls and likely freed each up for more offensive impact ala no double teams. Now a few times during those games HFCC managed to put Wallace and Barry in together along with the other 3-4 impact players, and during those times HFCC would come storming back. Barry in the second game I believe led a real nice comeback late defending/rebounding/stealking and hitting 3-4 three balls. Yeah, if you’re looking at that game you could see the 3-4 guys who where pretty damn good, and Barry was one of them. Unfortunately not many where looking.

    • Jared Field says:

      Wow. This is really pathetic. Shilling for your own son? Thomas Rudy as a pg is absurd. TRudy and his 6.4 points and 1.7 assists. WOW.

      The excuses never stop with you. It’s always something.

      • PJR says:

        Come on now. That’s just cheap shot after cheap shot. I’m not schilling, I’m just recounting what actually transpired to counter your false takes and falsehoods. You’re looking up stats off the NJCAA site as averages for the whole year, and noting NJCAA stats are pretty wacked out, you’re taking these averages for the year acting like that is representative of the end of the season, the playoffs or nationals. Nobody on HFCC as yearly average had great dominant stats from that year. Nobody on HFCC really has great stats this year noting Steward has nice stats not necessarily popping out as dominant. The cheap shoot stuff on Barry or me or whoever is annoying at best. If you need to see the tapes of the games in the season, playoffs and nationals I can send them to you. Facts are last half of the season TRudy played PG mostly. If you watched the state playoffs you saw TRudy play PG mostly. If you watched the nationals you saw TRudy play PG mostly. Seriously, it’s amazing how you can diss everyone on last year’s HFCC team, prop u your beloved Mott, and then try to explain how last year’s HFCC team won. Ditto this year! I’ll send you some tapes, as apparently you where chatting and not watching, and thus you’ll find everything happened is exactly as I said it did, and would.

  8. PJR says:

    The point is don’t you think it’s odd that NOBODY from the HFCC team last year got any D1/D2 scholarships, and even this year’s crew ditto, while the Mott fellas are going D1/D2 down the roster? How can it be that HFCC as a JuCo, noting JuCos are two year affairs generally per roster, can beat Mott when it counts the last two years, and NOT have anyone going near as high as the Mott guys they repeatedly spanked? Barry, Wallace, Mustin, Knott, TRudy, Foster, etc., etc. all fall through the cracks?? Come on now, the results are screaming something is wrong. Now you can call that overhype or schilling or wash out, but it’s system, period!

    • Ty Williams says:

      Mustin didn’t go to another college for basketball (D-I, D-II, or D-III)? Wow! That is shocky, now I actually saw him play in high school and I was impressed!

      • PJR says:

        Mustin started out at Mott, then last year was at HFCC and led the team in scoring with I think a 14 ppg average. Mustin even got some nice writeups after the HFCC state championship win. But haven’t heard anything about him getting a scholarship anywhere. Maybe he has, but I can’t find it.

  9. M_Montgomery says:

    PJR:

    Have you seen Torian play? It is obvious the guy is a big time athlete he can run the floor alot faster than you think and he dunks almost everything. On top of that he is still Very RAW, he has tons more potential than Barry.

    Come on, Barry is extremely slow and how many people did he dunk on at HFCC? I can guess probably about NONE.

    He has no explosiveness what so ever, Ogleslby has everything except the skill set, if he gets that than watch out.

    And the national tournament is the biggest stage for JUCO, so with all the “GREAT ATHLETICISM” Barry has I find it funny that he couldn’t get not ONE school to take a chance on him.

    Basketball is about potential mostly and if you have “Big time athletic ability” someone will take a chance on you, you won’t have to worry about whether you can pay for your classes at UofM Dearborn.

    • PJR says:

      M. Montgomery,

      Listen Up Now!! I’m not hating on Oglesby, and do don’t try to make this into a hatefest by me! Next, I’ve seen Oglesby play PLENTY! Oglesby is a nice player, I’m glad to see he went to Bowling Green, and think he can do real well there! That said you are the guy talking out your ass here, about Barry. Barry’s slow? Yeah, that’s why the HFCC coaching would put him out front on their full court press, or have him cover PG/SG to get steals. Come on now! You put Oglesby and Barry in a combine of any sort, and Barry would simply wipe Oglesby out in every measurement, and athletically Barry is far superior, period!

      But Oglesby is really not the point. And even Barry is not really the point, rather just an example. HFCC and other JuCos are underscouted, and a whole lot of quality talent is not getting looks. On HFCC not just Barry, but Mustin, Foster, TRudy, Wallace, Knott, Panky and a few others to my knowledge are either not getting offers or getting offers less than their talent. That is also happening in other unhyped JuCos. Now this last year a few scouts and a few more coaches did show up at HFCC, this due to the success they generated last year, but really still not enough for a team that was ranked #1 nationally.

      So the point is NOT that Oglesby doesn’t deserve his Bowling Green scholly, as I think he most certainly does, and hope he does well to prove JuCo ballers are for real. Rather the point is Oglesby going to a mid major D1, and particularly if Oglesby succeeds which he will likely do, shows that many JuCo players, like Barry, who are getting overlooked, just like many high school players from unscouted areas who don’t play summer shoe company travel ball, never get a look and fall through the cracks! Again, there’s a whole lot of lesser talent that’s in the right system or right place at the right time or have the right connections that are playing D1/D2 ball, who are a lot worse than they fellas falling through the cracks. Want proof, look at Michigan’s roster, or frankly MOST of the MAC’s and Horizon’s rosters, and a whole lot of the GLIAC’s rosters! That’s just a shame!

      • Jared Field says:

        Ha. Yep, the coaching staff put him out front on their press and had him cover guards to get steals. Well, HE GOT EIGHT STEALS IN 29 GAMES. Wow. That’s .27 per game. I’m totally impressed.

        The reason your son didn’t get a scholarship is because he’s not athletic enough. He’s 6-3 and (in all reality) should be playing small forward. He shot 6-for-30 from 3-point range. End of story.

        Wallace and Knott are good enough. I don’t know anything about their situations, but they are good enough to play at the next level in my opinion.

        You just love Barry so much that you can’t be objective. Wallace actually did give Mott’s frontline the business this year. The stuff about Barry is just fantasy. It’s so much fantasy, in fact, that it worries me. You’re thinking about him way too much.

        Keep in mind that I love Oglesby as an athlete; but, do I think he’s good enough for mid-major D-1? Probably not.

  10. PJR says:

    Honest to goodness Jared, you simply don’t have a clue! So much wrong on your latest post it’s just silliness! But you’re now to the point where you are ignoring facts I’ve posted to refute the wrong claims you make. Saying things like Barry and TRudy are not athletic enough is just absurdity! Both are far more athletic than the guys getting scholarship, period! But for a game watcher a great indicator of athleticism is what position you can play offensively and defense, inside and out. Now Barry routinely played and covered every position on the court, and Rudy routinely played and covered every position except maybe C. Barry might play Center on offense and cover a SG on defense, and Rudy might play a PF on offense and cover a PG on defense. That was kinda routine because HFCC didn’t have a lot of height. Again, if you had a Juco combine, both would be among the leaders! So that’s not their problem! And in spite of a few of you fellas trying to make this personal by honing on on just Barry or TRudy with your cheap shot silliness, the REAL point I’m trying to make by familiar example is there’s a whole lot of talented fellas being overlooked at a lot of the JuCos. HFCC last year provides a great example. If your goofy takes are to be believed a bunch of washed out unathletics nothings beat a team that had multiple D1ers and the rest D2ers. Come on now, make some sense!! The four year D1/D2 or other scholarship providing programs would do well to look the JuCo leagues over!

    • PJR says:

      Oh, BTW: Quit trying to make the NJCAA stats prove some point. The NJCAA stats are typically wacked out to start, and then the averages don’t reflect what’s going on at the end of a season or playoff. Barry got a whole heck of a lot more than 8 steals for the year. He had plenty of games with 3-5 steals. TRudy did not shoot 6 for 30 from the three point line. Etc., etc.!

      And for you novices out there one reason an athletic Barry at 6’7″ is put out front is that since he’s fast/quick/speed/endurance enough to defend like a guard and so stay with guards to pester or steal, emphasis pester, well the length results in bad passes or those arched passes that other HFCC teammates can run down and get EVEN MORE steals by, and more shot clock disruptions by! That was very effective for HFCC last year. You gotta watch the game though, because that’s not even a wacked out stat on the NJCAA site.

    • Jared Field says:

      I assume both Barry and Rudy must have been all-state in high school. They were, right?

  11. P. Hayes says:

    Wow. What a weird thread. Just wanted to throw some things out there in regard to PJR’s arguments:

    – I’m not really that familiar with Barry, so I won’t comment on whether he’s overlooked or not. But to constantly and repeatedly say that Barry didn’t get looks because he split minutes without pointing out that Oglesby has also split minutes throughout his Mott career is either dishonest or not doing homework. Torian shared frontcourt minutes this season with Doug Anderson, Mike Brigham and Deon Rice. It’s not like he was out there playing 30+ a game or something. He made the most out of his playing time, he improved and athletically, he has a lot of tools that all played into him getting some good offers.

    – If stats don’t matter, why bother tracking them? Why are pro and college teams constantly both using and creating new and better stats to measure the contributions and efficiency of players? Face it, the reason you are saying stats don’t matter is because you can’t back up your argument regarding Barry vs. Oglesby with any statistics. If Barry went for 35 and 17 against Oglesby, I bet you’d be the first person on here trumpeting the stats.

    – I don’t get what your point is with Marcus Knott. Are you saying he’s under-recruited based on the fact that he’s been a key part of successful teams? You call him “maybe the top PG in JUCO,” (and I’m not necessarily disagreeing, but that argument is not going to be strong by just saying “his teams win”) and your argument is based largely on the fact that HFCC won games. If that’s the logic, Kieon Arkwright went to St. Clair and won games. He had a great season. HFCC’s backcourt couldn’t handle him.

    You seem to use head-to-head and team success as big, big factors in who you think is under rated and over rated. If you apply those standards to Kieon, doesn’t that make him better than Knott? Kieon is going D-2. If your argument is that Knott should be getting D-1 or D-2 looks because his team won a lot and he played well against Mott, then by that logic, shouldn’t you be arguing that Kieon should be D-I and the best PG in JUCO since he worked HFCC this season and led his team to nationals?

    Sorry to say, but head-to-head individual matchups say very little about what level a player is equipped to play at. Scouting and recruiting, particularly at the D-I and D-2 levels are just much, much more complex than that.

    – Another big point that seems to be left out of your arguments: Mott is now in it’s second decade of sustained, unparalleled success at the JUCO level. It’s a national program because of the hard work of not just the head coach, but the assistants as well as talented players who buy in. With that sustained success comes a track record — coaches trust that kids who complete two years at Mott are going to be well-coached, disciplined, talented and a good bet to come in and help a program.

    Let’s face it. JUCO as a whole is a mixed bag. There are a lot of players with different issues, there is poor coaching and there are risks for big time programs. It makes total, 100 percent sense for schools like Mott, with an amazing track record, to carry more clout among D-I, D-II, D-whatever recruiters. To argue otherwise is just blatantly ignoring what Mott’s program is.

    I like HFCC. I think the team is well-coached. I like the way they play. There are some talented kids on that team. But come on … the HFCC track record of success is still in very early stages.

    You want college coaches to respect the program and recruit the kids? Get back to nationals consistently. Win a national title (or two). Have kids who are D-I or D-II worthy filling the roster. Have those kids who start to get those looks go on and represent what they were taught at HFCC well wherever they end up. Don’t lose to teams (twice) that have less talent. And certainly don’t whine on message boards that too much attention is paid to a program that has done those things for more than 10 years at the expense of upstart programs with no track record of success beyond a couple years to speak of.

    As Lou Dawkins would say, “you want it? Go get it!”

    • PJR says:

      Patrick Hayes, here’s my thoughts on your comments:

      It’s not really about Barry vs Oglesby, it’s more about reaching out to the other programs not called Mott to look for quality players. I agree and frankly that was part of the original point that Mott’s success has made if a focal point program for recruiting by college coaching. The only reason I commented in the first place was that it would seem if Oglesby is going midmajor D1 there are a lot of other JuCo guys who certainly could at least get a D2 scholarship, Barry being one of them, as well as Wallace, TRudy, Knott, Foster, Panky on #1 in nation HFCC or maybe even say a real nice player called Felsner on last placed in MCCAA Schoolcraft CC.

      Stats need to be taken with a grain of salt, at all levels, but particularly the lower/looser the level. In high school stats are routinely mistake prone and even manipulated. I can tell you that I routinely check the game scorebook and even those stats change from end of game to newspaper writeup, typically points shaved from non hyped fellas and given to hyped fellas. Adults do this not the kids. Same in many JuCos and other college levels. I’d even question, and have question, major college stats, for instance when MSU had 3 of their guard Neitzel/Walton/Lucas in the top 5 Big Ten for assists at 5 each. Just don’t believe it, ain’t true, period! For instance 8 steals for Barry for the year is clearly in error, big time error. Just need to be careful about saying stats mean this or that even when stats are 100% right, but when they are obviously wrong it becomes silly! Did Jones of Arthur Hill really pass out 12 assists per game? Nope! question is what Arthur Hill fella maye got assists that where part of that 12 available move from his line?! Did Barry really get only 8 steals the whole year? Nope!

      A lot of the other points you make you are trying to say I took opposite stances too but facts are you’re preaching to the choir. For instance I used Keion Arkright as an example of a guy who had a great year that was underrecruited and shoulda/coulda gone D1.

      Also you go pretty deep throat loyal for Mott for a lot of your stuff. Just bounces off and makes no sense! For instance one big thing I will disagree with you about is that if it takes getting to the Nationals to command recruiting looks then all JuCo is in a heap of trouble. That kind of logic is at the core of the problem, and just plain wrong. College coaching and scouts need to realize there’s good talent across the board even at the lower JuCos. JuCo ball is really a kind of Regional All Area Team league, and has a lot of quality players from each region/team. Sure some teams have more talent on their teams, but about every team has solid talent. A guy like D1 UoDetroit bound Minnerath should not be give a look by your logic, since Jackson was bottom shelf MCCAA with an overall losing record, and hasn’t sniffed the nationals in years. Even the worst JuCo team has some very good players worth a look for some level of four year play. That’s my point, totally opposite yours. Just going back to the hyped programs means you’ll miss a lot of players. If it takes two or three years of getting to the Nationals before college coaching and scouts are going to come see, well that’s just flat out wrong! The worker is worth his wage, but the wage requires work. That goes for college coaching and scouts with regard to JuCo recruiting!

    • PJR says:

      BTW I’m something to ponder even against the college coaching recruiting focus on MCCAA JuCo Mott CC is I’m guessing Sagnasty’ Lou Dawkins had a lot more to do with Ogleby getting to Bowling Green than Mott’s Coach Schmidt did!

      • Jared Field says:

        Torian went to Saginaw Buena Vista. Lou Dawkins coaches at Saginaw High.

      • PJR says:

        Yeah Dawkins coaches Saginaw High, and scouts with his BotB, and BV is right down the street and officially counts as Sagnasty! So what’s your point? Dawkins only helps out Saginaw High fellas?

  12. Cinderella says:

    Thomas Rudy got cut at the tryouts for Central Michigan this past year.

    • PJR says:

      Let’s try not to focus on Barry or TRudy too much here, as that’s moving away from the original point. The point of this string is about a lot of JuCo fellas who are quality players who can play at some D1/D2 who are not getting looks in JuCo. However that said, as correction and to try to keep this away from “shilling”, facts are actually TRudy at CMU after tryouts got a call back and for about three weeks was on the CMU team practicing with the team during the Fall however after he filled out his NCAA paperwork it ended up he didn’t qualify under NCAA transfer rules because his acccounting degree was 124 not 120 credits and required 50 for reaching the 40% of major tranfer NCAA rule not the 48 credits that he had in his Associates from HFCC and time at EMU. So he couldn’t play by NCAA rules or according to CMU rules be on the roster. Bummer, but her again the key point is at least proved for a lotta guys a capability to play for a D1 team given the right breaks and situation.

      • ddawkins says:

        thats a lie lol

      • PJR says:

        Come on now nobody’s lying.

        What’s crazy about all you fools trying to make this into a hate fest is you refuse to discuss the main point, that is nobody is saying the fellas at HFCC or the fellas at any of the other JuCos who have solid talent should be at Duke, but just saying there’s a lot of JuCo fellas who are very good players who are not even getting looks from lower D1s and D2s who are as good and many times better than who they are taking. Why not concentrate on that angle a bit instead of the perceived slight you seem to feel about Oglesby, particularly when there isn’t any slight on Oglesby. The only guy who said Oglesby doesn’t belong at MAC D1 Bowling Green is Field, yet you’re attacking Barry and Co. just because the comparison between Oglesby and Barry and the games he played at NAIA/D2 UoM Dearborn would say he would have been a nice SF for some NCAA D2 or maybe even an lower D1!

  13. M_Montgomery says:

    Barry 6’6 slow foot speed, no explosiveness….who can Barry defend at the next level?

    He is not an D-1 Athlete by any means…..ANY MEANS

    • PJR says:

      This is silly talk. Barry played wider receiver for Wyandotte and was a deep bomb threat who led the Mega in TD receptions and yards per catch. To say he has no foot speed is ludicrous. Barry has plenty of speed, very athletic, is an elbow on rim leaper, and very quick for a 6’6″ fella who can cover guards. There are certainly a lot of fellas playing D1 who are a lot less athletic than Barry. But try to get to the original post point. That is there’s a lot of fellas in the JuCo ranks that are not getting looks and should be! For instance, many of these JuCo guys are CERTAINLY BETTER than many of the high school players going on scholarship.

      • Ty says:

        Why didn’t he play football then if he was that good?

      • PJR says:

        Barry had some offers to play football, but the schools weren’t suitable or the offers not good enough to cover enough. Basically the same as basketball. It’s just another unscouted deal. Barry frankly was held back by the previous coach, as where many Wyandotte football fellas, and when coach Adams came Barry had a nice little explosion his senior year. Still too little too late. I will say that Barry as a wide receiver in football was a fella that really could have been a MAC level wide receiver. Same for another 6’5″ Wyandotte fella named Nate Shay, a few years before, who also played basketball and was a great athlete, and frankly could have been a great two sport athlete even for some GLIAC D2 at least. This stuff is EXACTLY what I’m talking about, as in the old adage “if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it does it make a sound?”. Downriver is one area of the state, and there are many, that goes a whole lot unscouted unless there’s some 7 footer in basketball or some 250 lb 4.5 40 in football. The peverse bassachwards scouting/recruiting attitudes you see in the replies by some so called experts in this string are core to the problem. Ranked Blue Chip or forgetaboutit misses a lot of other solid talent around the state, JuCo and High School.

  14. JucoJunkie says:

    I’ve watched juco ball for many years in Missouri, Iowa and Michigan. I’ve seen a lot of tremendously talented young men and women compete from many schools. Some of them have gone on to big four-year schools, some have gone to smaller four-year schools, and some have stopped playing when their juco days are over. There are a lot of factors that cause a player to go any one of those three routes. None of us can know with all certainty why one player went one way and another player went another way. I’m just thankful to be able to watch all of them for a limited amount of time during their playing careers.

    • PJR says:

      True Point. One thing a whole lot of novice fellas on this forum apparently forget is that many times a solid college level player decides not to play to pursue academics. That’s blasphemy to those hoop hypsters. I can think of a couple fellas who had pretty good offers and where quality D1 capable guys and decided not to play. First one would be 4.0 gpa 32 act Jeff Zeleje of Southgate, who had Ivey league offers and even an offer from Amaker to be a preferred walkon at Michigan. He went to Mihcigan, but decided not to play basketball to focus on his studies. Likewise Charlie Hutson said no to a few lower D1’s GLIAC D2s and NAIA D2s because non of them had anything he wanted academically. He got an EE from Michigan Dearborn and is now a masters student at Wayne. I’m sure there’s many stories like this where choices where made. It happens at the D1 level even for guys on teams. Look at Michigan’s 6’8″ walkon Puls, who left the team to pursue studies and frankly he might have gotten playing decent time this year given how bad Michigan’s frontcourt is. And for sure happens at the D2/D3 level. You are right, there’s all kinds of reasons, and some are solid reasons not to play even if you have the talent.

      • Jared Field says:

        Eric Puls = not even close to good.

        This explains your love affair with Barry.

      • PJR says:

        Not saying Eric Puls is a great player, but saying he is better than Beilein’s current frontcourter recruits, particularly for Beilein’s Magic Bus offense. Eric Puls can actually shoot the rock and with some seasoning could be a Pittsnoogle mini me, emphasis mini. Again, look at who Beilein’s brought in. They don’t fit with his Magic Bus at all. You telling me Jorgan Morgan fits better than Puls in Beilein’s scheme? Morgan’s thought to be the PF starter next year. Sorry, if you think that, you just don’t get it!

      • PJR says:

        Also, Puls was just used as an example that many times many student/athletes choose STUDENT first. That concept seems lost on this forum, where apparently the top academic accomplishment is some psychology or journalism or communications or other underwater basketweaving pursuit. There are fellas who like to work their minds first and foremost!

        And BTW Barry crucified Puls at minicamps. Barry can shoot as good from the outside as Puls can but is far more physical inside.

      • Jared Field says:

        Realize that sometimes you’re just not good enough. That’s true in Puls case.

      • Marcellus Miller says:

        I stayed relatively quiet on this until now. Why is it that rash generalizations have to be made in conversations like this? PJR, you speak about academics in your post with relation to this sites’ pursuits. I happen to take that personally as one of the founding members of this site. Now personally speaking, no one can question my academic pursuit as one of “underwater basket weaving” or anything else. That too goes for my well-versed colleagues. I won’t go into detail of what those academic pursuits actually are because this is not about me tooting my own horn or theirs. However, just bear in mind that the lengthy diatribe of accusation and generalizations will get you in more battles you cannot win than vice versa. Those that know us, already know…

  15. Ty says:

    Please someone, cut off his hands. He has no life outside of his computer.

  16. Ty says:

    He is a cyber whore.

  17. thomasbrudy says:

    Whoa Whoa Whoa!!! All this information is incorrect…..I had way more turnovers at HFCC.

    Information that is true…HFCC had a good squad the year I played.

    I did get cut from CMU, then got put on afterwards after one of their freshmen kids quit. Was a few credits short at the time to stay on the team.

    ….Funny that this comes up in my Google Search.

    Jared Fields – You can see my amazing point guard skills here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39cBzA3Dvmg < Dominique Buckley on D (think he went D1 somewhere).

    I am back in town from DC this weekend, so I'll be ball hogging all weekend at the local Y if you want a real story to cover.

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