Saturday: A sad day for JUCO basketball in Michigan

Posted: February 28, 2010 by Jared Field in College

CENTREVILLE, Michigan — Saturday JUCO basketball fans across the state found out that Henry Ford Community College, last year’s unlikely regional champion and a one-time no. 1-ranked team in the nation this season, will not participate in the regional playoffs.

Apparently the team played the bulk of its schedule with an ineligible player and so must forfeit all but two of its victories. This is obviously traumatizing for the team, but it’s also bad for JUCO basketball in Michigan all around. Everyone, myself included, wanted to see round three of Mott versus Henry Ford.

And if that wasn’t bad enough, this:

Yesterday’s state championship game at Glen Oaks was as bad as I’ve seen in terms of production value. I wouldn’t put Glen Oaks in charge of a Gus Macker Tournament. Saturday’s MCCAA state championship game, won by Mott, was embarrassing even by middle-of-the-road junior college standards. Glen Oaks didn’t have an announcer (it’s the state title game for God’s sake!), they didn’t track fouls on the scoreboard and they didn’t even have security in the gym. Are you guys kidding me?

The game had to be stopped in the second half when a fight nearly broke out in the stands. Fans and coaches had to try to separate the would-be combatants and it was all too close to going very wrong. Two officers from the St. Joseph County Sheriff’s Department showed up about 20 minutes later.

It was an embarrassment for a state that has arguably the best quality of JUCO basketball in the nation.

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Comments
  1. FliBoyz says:

    Michigan isn’t even a top 5 state when it comes to JUCOs even though some teams are very good? #1 ranked state is Florida and 2nd is Cali. Congrats to Mott and Coach S.

    • Jared Field says:

      I know at the national tournament in Danville the MCCAA is very well respected, but that might be more of a Mott thing than Michigan. We have good ball here, at every level — except for the Pistons.

    • PJR says:

      That state by state national ranking is bogus because it depends too much on D1 JuCo vs D2 Juco hype factors. Are the top D2 JuCo\s as good as the top D1 JuCos? Lots closer than you’d think. Seen a lot of fellas exceling at D1 JuCo from Michigan that might not even start on the Michigan D2 JuCos. Sorry. Michigan’s D2’s could thump a lot of nationally ranked D1’s, and that’s not accounted for in that state by state!

  2. A Coggins says:

    Maybe they will allow schools that actually run a professional event to host the title game from now on…

  3. PJR says:

    Geez! Maybe it’s a good thing Mott applies for and gets the playoffs. Glen Oaks CC Coaching/AD/Admin sounds like they are out to lunch. However gotta say there’s some good facilities around the state that maybe should get into the championship game and playoff tourney site action. Grand Rapids CC, Jackson CC, Delta CC all could hold a fine tournament, to name a few.

    • a coggins says:

      Totally agree PJR. Too many schools could do a great job…there is no excuse for a second-rate event to be held…especially in the state title game.

      • PJR says:

        Not to mention it makes sense to play a championship game on a neutral court, preferably about halfway from each JuCo so fans can get there. For instance, with Glen Oaks and Flint Mott playing, Jackson CC would be the perfect championship game local! And per the playoffs, maybe the teams that don’t make it are preferable as the place to host the event. For instance Schoolcraft would be a great facilty to hold District playoffs for the Eastern Conference teams this year! Just a little bit of smart by the MCCAA can make the JuCo events a whole lot fairer to all teams and thus FANtastic!

  4. Murph says:

    The best juco team in Michigan is Midland (TX). They have 5 or 6 players from Michigan and are ranked #1 in Division 1.

    Division 1 jcs are better than D2 jcs. That’s why they’re D1.

    • Jared Field says:

      Are you talking about the team Caleb Dean is on?

      I think he’s the only Michigan guy on the team and not very good. He already washed out of one JUCO.

    • PJR says:

      D1 are not given D1 status because they are better. The reason JuCo’s are divided up into D1, D2, and D3 levels is because of the money/resources they put into the athletics, particularly scholarships money. D3’s give out zero athletic scholarship money. (Note Henry Ford CC is defacto a D3 as it give out no schollies). D2’s give out tuition based athletic Scholarship money, and D1’s I think can give out the most as in tuition and housing and such. Bet dollars to donut all the starting five on the top D1 JuCo would NOT be the whole starting five if they went to Mott, HFCC, Oakland, etc.

  5. JucoJunkie says:

    I grew up in Moberly, MO watching the Greyhounds who still hold most of the records for D-1 juco basketball. I later lived in southeast Iowa and watched the SCC Blackhawks who hold the record for all-time wins in D-1 juco. Both schools recruit nationally and have had several players go on to play professional basketball. I’ve lived here in southeast Michigan for 13 years and have watched lots of SC4 and Mott games. There are many more good D-1 teams than there are good D-2 teams since their programs allow them to recruit more players out of state. But in my opinion, the upper level D-2 teams, like Mott, can compete very well with the upper D-1 teams. There’s so much basketball talent in Michigan that the D-2 schools can recruit close to home and still field good teams.

    • PJR says:

      That’s a good point about D1 programs having more of a green light to recruit out of state. That helps some of them for sure. I know many of the D2 programs that compromise the MCCAA have community colleges admins the set unofficial guidelines, as they that don’t want too many fellas from out of their region. Frankly, that makes the MCCAA even more impressive to have a league that over this year had as many as 8 teams ranked nationally in the top 15 or honorable mention. Mott, HFCC, GRCC, Glen Oaks, SCCCC, Oakland CC, Lansing CC, and KVCC where all ranked at one time of another this year. That’s outstanding!

  6. MI Bball says:

    No doubt the ineligible player was no surprise to the coaching staff @ HFCC.

    • PJR says:

      Who was the ineligible player? And why would you say it was no surprise to the coaching? Can’t see HFCC coaching risking what could be a great season to one ineligible player, particularly when the core is so well know as a year or two outta high school anyway. Someone must have buffaloed the coaching about their past college time. But who?

    • ALAN FITZPATRICK says:

      THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THIS BLOG AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT THERE WAS NOT AN INELIGIBLE PLAYER AT HFCC LAST YEAR. WHY THEY HAD TO FORFEIT THE GAMES IS THAT A TRANSFER, ANGELO PENMAN DID NOT HAVE A TRANSFER LETTER FOR HIM. THEY HAD A LOT OF ISSUES WITH PAPERWORK AS THEY LOST THEIR AD MID-SEASON. MY BROTHER PLAYED THERE AND IS GREAT FRIENDS WITH COACH ABE AND THEY WOULD NEVER PLAY INELIGIBLE PLAYERS. THIS PENMAN KID HARDLY PLAYED TOO AND HAD VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH THEIR SUCCESS (NO DISRESPECT TO HIM, JUST BEING HONEST).

  7. Hoop Dreams says:

    I have read all the post and replies concerning michigan juco’s and hfcc’s dilemma. I also know that you as viewers are entitled to your own opinion’s, but please know what your talking about before you reply or make a comment.

    1) it seems that a few of you are mad about how glen oaks ran the state tournament. Your solutions A. coggins and PJR is for a neutral site. Well the mccaa AGREED on the first year the west winner to host. 2nd yr east winner. So every even year the team that wins the west will host and every odd year the east team will host.

    2) Pjr you really believe that hfcc has no scholarships. Every school in michigan is given or granted a certain dollar budget for each athletic program and in some cases x amount of tuition waivers (sholarchips). So schools like hfcc are given x amount of dollars for basketball expenses. Those expenses are used for travel, coaches pay, equipment and scholarships. Now the money they get isnt alot but they do give SCHOLARSHIPS.

    3)PJR many d2 programs in mccaa set unofficial guidlines? There is no such thing. d2 programs can recruit from wherever they want and bring in whoever they want. The only thing that would really stop that is the amount of money available from the program.

    4) i have heard from a real reliable source that hfcc dilemma is due to a transfer waiver getting lost. THAT IS NOT CHEATING!

    So please get your facts straight about things before you pretend to know something. That is how rumors get started and how people believe the wrong things.

    • Jared Field says:

      Good points.

      I don’t know that anyone accused HF of cheating. I have a lot of respect for Coach Mashour and I never even considered the possibility, to be honest.

      • SBell says:

        Not quite true. There are jc coaches in the state who have been told by the school presidents to recruit locally.

      • Jared Field says:

        All talent being equal, I’m sure every coach would prefer to recruit locally. That would take away much of the annoyance with housing, as typically d-2 JUCOs do not have dorms.

      • PJR says:

        I don’t think most Michigan’s D2 JuCos can afford too much housing from their program budget, as in getting too many non local players. Housing can cost as much or more than the JuCo education itself if you figure rent, utilities, food, etc.. The MI D2s pretty much rely on local fellas living at home!

    • PJR says:

      Hoops Dreams you seem a little confused, You’re taking unrelated materials and making accusations with them. Corrections as needed:

      Cheating? Think I defended HFCC about not cheating. The issue posted as reason for disqualification was a player not qualifying and I merely asked who?!

      Next, sounds like the complaints on the championship games where about Glen Oaks management of the event. The neutral site idea is just an idea, but one that I like and makes sense! Not even worried about Glen Oaks mishandling per that idea, just think home court advantage is wrong for championships and playoffs.

      I said the difference in D1/D2/D3 programs was the money and resource they put in. Generally that breaks down usage wise to D3 no schollies, D2 schollies but no housing, and D1 schollies/housing/etc. That still stands as correct. All programs have money for program expenses. Somebody’s gotta pay for reffing, busing, unis, etc., etc., etc.! You’re really making an argument by agreement.

      HFCC to my knowledge didn’t give out any scholarships last year or in years past. Knew a lot of the players and they didn’t any tuition money. Maybe that changed this year based on last year’s success but didn’t hear about it. I’ll check into that. Are you aware of anyone that got scholarship money at HFCC last year? I think HFCC officially is more of a D3 that’s playing in a D2.

      I know for a fact many of the Michigan JuCo Admins unofficially want players on their rosters from their own areas as majority. JuCos have mission statements about serving their community and area that justify tax base to run them. That’s why they are D2 in fact, because they don’t want to be housing out of state or out of region players with the increased costs. While D2 programs officially can recruit from where they want to, defacto most try to say in the area they serve. Want proof, look at the rosters.

  8. Murph says:

    You need to look at Midland’s roster cuz you’re thinking wrong. You’re dogging Dean who wasn’t a good high school player but, you say the same thing about Keith Benson who you now drool over. Dean went from a good juco to the best jc team in the country. Don’t see how that’s washed out. And he starts for Midland. Dollars to doughnuts he gets a D1 SCHOLARSHIP!

    • Jared Field says:

      So he averaged four points a game at a good JUCO. Whoop-de-doo. He’s now a sophomore at Midland and averaging five points and a whopping two rebounds per game. Forgive me for not wetting my pants with excitement. Keith Benson? Ha.

      Here’s their current roster. I only see one Michigan player on it, so maybe you can help me with this.

      21 Dean, Caleb 6’9 230 F SO Novi, MI
      12 Edmondson, Tyshwan 6’3 175 G SO Hopkinsville, KY
      2 Jackson, Curtis 6’2 185 G SO Philadelphia, PA
      10 Landry, Guy 6’5 205 G FR Paris, France
      3 Milum, Rodney 6’0 175 G FR Houston, TX
      15 Moore, Kenny 6’6 220 F SO Philadelphia, PA
      4 Nurse, Ty 6’0 175 G FR Vancouver, British Columbia
      11 Pane, Brockeith 6’2 190 G SO Dallas , TX
      23 Simmons, Jonathon 6’6 190 G SO Houston, TX
      24 Walker, Jason 6’4 180 G FR-RS Big Spring, TX
      33 Walker, Jordan 6’6 175 F FR Chicago, IL
      25 Williams, Darrell 6’8 240 F SO Chicago, IL

      • PJR says:

        Q: How’s he starting and only getting 5 points and 2 rebounds per game as big man? That’s real low production for even half a game, which is the minimum time a starter should get for floor time. BTW 6’8″ PF Renaldo Wallace would kick his ass!

      • Murph says:

        Lamar St is the one with all the Michigan players.

      • Jared Field says:

        Yeah. I posted on those guys a while back. I don’t think Mott would sweat a team with so many misfits. Their leading scorer is a Flint kid who couldn’t have made it here.

      • PJR says:

        Looking at the roster Lamar did have a lot of Michigan fellas, but frankly don’t think they where any big shakes. Don’t know much about the non Michigan fellas, but it looks like the Michigan fellas are the top scorers mostly. That said, MI for MI, give me the HFCC or Mott rosters.

      • Ray says:

        as for dean, he has offers from duquesne. Middle Tennesee and wmu according to his coach so he is obviously starting and doing SOMETHING right…hes on a team with 3 JUCO All-Americans. i know for a fact he has improved since high school…if he’s so washed up and as bad as you guys say he is theres no way he would be even a part of that team ranked #1 in the nation

  9. sp says:

    HFCC is IN!

  10. JucoJunkie says:

    I went to the MCCAA web site and they now have HFCC listed as the 4th seed playing the #5 seed, Delta on Tuesday. The winner plays Mott on Friday in the semis.

  11. JucoJunkie says:

    Well, we’ll get to see Mott/HFCC, Part 3 after all, unless Delta pulls off an upset.

  12. PJR says:

    Hoops Dreams: Don’t want to rub it in on you but I was right and you was wrong about HFCC and scholarships. Go here:

    http://www.hfcc.edu/news/news.asp?id=330

    Key line in this HFCC news article is this:

    “Due to cuts in state aid, HFCC was forced to eliminate athletic scholarships from its budget, according to HFCC athletic director Nancy Bryden.”

    They try to raise some athletic scholarship money through fundraisers, however the article from March 2009 reports that in 2008 they raised only $2,812. Now Seriously, given that’s split between the varsity sports men’s baseball, basketball and golf, and women’s softball, basketball and volleyball, that’s worth about a happy meal for each player.

    So like I said, HFCC is a D3 level JuCo giving out no scholarships!

    • Hoop Dreams says:

      Pjr…that article means absolutely nothing. So once again ill state this: every community college program is given tuition waivers (scholarships) and/or (x) amount of dollars to divide up however they choose. So just because schools like hfcc dont have tuition waivers does not mean they dont give kids athletic money. If you want to use that rule to claim hfcc should be a d3 juco then so should wayne county and i believe scccc. They do not have tuition waivers either. All of their stuff is raised and of taken from the (x) amount of dollars.

      • PJR says:

        What do you mean that article means nothing? It specifically states that the budget cut athletic scholarships out as far as school funding. The only scholarship money given out is what is raised via fundraising. And obviously that’s not very much. If you want to count a little bit of minor assistance here and there as an athletic scholarship program you’re loony. Maybe there’s even some oddball case of a student/athlete or two actually getting some decent dollars, but that’s just not a complete program of scholarships. Kids looking for a full ride scholarship with tuition, housing, etc., at HFCC won’t find it. Thus not D1. Kids looking for full tuition reimbursement at HFCC won’t find it. Thus not D2. Frankly HFCC is D3! You can ignore the facts if you want! Better start listing the fellas that got money at HFCC and how much, because your no fact claims while overlooking facts in ink from the HFCC AD don’t mean squat!

      • Hoop Dreams says:

        Pjr, trust me i know what i am talking about. That AD you state was fired before this years current basketball season. Are you aware of that since you are such a hfcc followr. Alot of other schools are in the same boat as hfcc as far as money being available. The money they raise is what is used for scholarships, also money is and can be taking out of the budget they get for the same purpose, it they chose not to do that then thats there problem. It does not mean they dont have the money to offer such things. So i guess there is alot more d3 jucos in michigan then. Maybe we should have a d3 juco league in michigan also based on ur opinion. I know for a fact that some hfcc players recieve some type of money. It varies from year to year and the amount but the same thing happens at other jucos in michigan. Alot more juco’s have the same exact problem as hfcc in case you were wondering.

  13. PJR says:

    Hoops Dreams what are you talking about. Nothing you post is true. The AD at HFCC is still Nancy Bryden. Go here:

    http://www.mccaa.org/henryford.htm

    Not to mention I’ve talked to her this year. You just disregard all the facts and make up your own scenarios. Then after each point is proven wrong with documentable facts you say “trust me”. Get serious! Name some HFCC names and amounts. I could even see one or two guys getting some money, but not the whole team. Not unless some private sponsor came up with a whole lotta dinaro to cover the whole college sports teams, and more than the two grand from bowling fundraisers!

    • Hoop Dreams says:

      PJR, are you kidding me? Nancy got FIRED before the winter sports. Get your facts straight! I know more about this subject than some outsider. Whatever you have to believe to feel sorry for hfcc or anything else keep doing it. I cant name or state my sources but im RIGHT about the issues we continue to discuss. Your the reason rumors and things continue in this world but people like you make me laugh due to you non-sense

  14. PJR says:

    We’re wandering far afield. YOU are the one that rumor mongering. YOU keep saying HFCC’s giving out scholarships with all kinds of qualifiers like “not much” and such. A couple hundred dollars would not be considered a scholarship based program really. Heck you can get half off HFCC by living in Dearborn for cripes sakes. Frankly I don’t know who HFCC’s AD is, and it doesn’t matter whether Bryden is still it or someone else is now it. You keep saying HFCC is giving out scholarships, but you’re not coming up with any solid evidence of that per who’s getting them. Most fo the team members last year didn’t get any, or anything much. IF that’s change this year they aren’t listing athletic scholarship availability anywhere. Remember it’s not just basketball rather ALL the mens and womens programs they’d have to cover with an athletic scholarship budget. That’d be a sizeable amount. So come up with the goods or HFCC is still more like a no scholarship D3 in my book. And let’s just get back to the original point, and that is the MCCAA JuCos are D2’s and most offer tuition based athletic scholarships as core, and typically depend on players living at home, and recruit close to home in their areas. Now there may be an exceptions to that rule and you can see kids that come from out of state here and there, who may get alittle more help, but that’s limited as focus as generally the rule.

  15. PJR says:

    Bryden’s name is still listed on tons of HFCC pages as the AD. Jim Nelson is listed on the Athletic page as AD. Here’s what the HFCC athletic Scholarship form says below. Note amount “varies” and use is tuition. Doubt HFCC’s giving these to everyone if it’s just donation money and not budgeted as part of the athletics program:

    Athletic Scholarship Hide/Show Eligibility Rules
    Award: Varies
    Required GPA: 0
    Scholarship Type: Annual Scholarship
    Department: N/A
    Must have completed Credit Hours towards degree: 0
    Min Credit Hours per Semester: 6
    Essay required for Scholarship Eligibility: No
    FAFSA required for Scholarship Eligibility: No
    Residence or School Name: N/A
    For: Current HFCC Student

    Field of Interest: Athletics

    Other Criteria: Must be HFCC student – Athlete Must be recommended by coach. Must meet NJCAA elgibility standards. No application process. Award by semester. Athletic Department awards scholarship.
    Used For: Tuition

    • Hoop Dreams says:

      Pjr…go back and read. I never said everyone got got a scholarship at hfcc. Not every kid at mott gets one either. You said that they dont give out scholarships so i called your bluff. Then you come up with all this stuff off their web site and say you have talked to their ad. Then you want to argue with me about who is. I KNOW THESE THINGS! I have alot more sources and information regarding the mccaa that you could ever imagine. So when i see b.s. stuff like you were stating…i call it! There is alot of schools in the same position as hfcc, thats all im saying. So please dont make false statements regarding programs that you know nothing about. I dont care if they can only afford 1 scholarship. That is a scholarship, but i know its more than that. Do some actual research on how much money schools in the mccaa have. You will be impressed that there is at least 4 other schools in hfcc’s shoes when it comes to that.
      I hope this clears things up, cuz im dont responding to this. I know what im talking about, i dont need to look at internet sites to get material to write about or use as useless facts. There is always more than the avg joe knows!

      • PJR says:

        Well there’s no bluff to call. They don’t give out scholarships. Still don’t know of anyone that got one. For talking purposes let’s just say an athletic scholarhip is at least half the cost of tuition for a full year. A couple hundred dollars give out from a bowling fundraiser isn’t what I’d call a scholarship program. There’s no BS stuff going on. If Bryden recently got replaced it was recently enough where they haven’t changed her name out of all the website AD listing on all the various teams. And I emailed her prior to Christmas about getting some videos and got a response. SO maybe she’s moved on. Frankly that was just one of your tangents that don’t apply to the scholarship. You’re the one making up rumors. You keep inferring HFCC gets scholarship and is equivalent to a D2 in that regard, as in full tuition scholarships for the 12 person roster. That just ain’t true! If you actually puts some real dollars to players facts down with some kind of factual backup, I’ll say you was right, but not until then when everything you can find from the college says you’re blowing smoke!

      • ALAN FITZPATRICK says:

        Just as your reliable source told you that a transfer waiver was lost (which is accurate) ask your source about schollies. At HFCC, they do not get any money for athletes. The players all use their pell grant money and take out loans; including All-American Jamie Stewart, Renaldo Wallace, Terrance Tubbs, Marcus Knott, Christian Moon and the rest. I will tell you they are trying to do fund raisers to build a pot of money to help their athletes but the college does not have or give athletic scholarships – go to the EADA site (public site that tells you as much) or call the college AD or President. THEY DO NOT GIVE SCHOLARSHIPS. Check your reliable sources or call coach.

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